Sunday
25Oct2009
Check out this REAL, live scenario:
Sunday, October 25, 2009 at 5:18PM
Check out this REAL, live scenario:
This evening, my husband was studying for his final at the local Barnes and Noble up here on "The Hill".
"The Hill" is known in our city for being the wealthiest area to live. People who live up here are usually rich.
(And/or their homes burned down and they are here in a temporary apartment on insurance money.)
Either way, most people THINK only the rich people live up here but we, Dear Blog Readers, know this is not always the case.
"The Hill" is full of fancy cars and posh, snobby people. Mostly. Not all, but a good majority. And yet, if these people went to live in, say, Los Angeles or better yet, Beverly Hills they'd be simple trifles in a bustling REAL city with REAL money. Put in their place, a bit.
It's like the little pretend wannabe gangstas in town. I always wonder how gangsta the pretend wannabe gangsta would be if he moved to, say, Compton where real, live gangstas with guns & stuff live.
So, a question/observation: upon meeting someone, WHY do people, particularly those with money, begin conversations by having to find out first WHERE YOU LIVE and WHAT YOU DO before they are willing to go any further in conversation with you?
I believe by asking these questions the person is trying to figure out where they fall on the totem poll: Should they file in above you, as in "see ya wouldn't wanna be ya" or below you, as in "wish I could be like you, maybe if I hang around you long enough it will rub off or something".
Meanwhile, at the local Barnes & Noble this evening:
An LDS man from "The Hill" walked up to Mr. Valentine and said: Hey, how's it going, man?
Mr. Valentine: Hey, man! Haven't seen you in a while! How's the family?
Man from "The Hill": They're good. RaeAnn's at home with our kids. Running a few errands after work. *hint of pride* Been up at Rockpoint (a physician clinic) for the last three years.
Mr. Valentine: That's cool, man. What have you all been up to this summer? How many kids?
Man from "The Hill": Got five - two boys and three girls. We just got back from our lake cabin last weekend. Hey, what ward are you in - where do you live?
Mr. Valentine: The Lodges at Adirondack.
Man from "The Hill": Oh, so you're in first ward, then?
Mr. Valentine: Actually, no, we're in third ward. We had a house fire so we're up here temporarily while it's being fixed.
Man from "The Hill": *notable attitude change* Oh, so you don't actually LIVE up here, then?
Mr. Valentine: No.
Man from "The Hill": Ah. *long pause of awkward silence* Hey, well I'll let you get back to work. You look like you've got some busy work there. Hey, nice seeing ya.
Mr. Valentine: See ya.
OBSERVATIONS:
Mr. Valentine was so shocked by this conversation that he called me right away to see if he perceived it correctly. And, I believe he did. He tells me this happens to him ALL THE TIME during sales appointments, because he's constantly meeting with wealthy people. He tells me that unless he lies his way though the "where do you live" question, the client will not buy from him.
He mentioned that things changed in the conversation, visibly, once the man realized we did not live on "The Hill" and that we lived in the poorest church ward in the city.
In fact, what the man was really asking when he asked where we lived was "How much money do you have?. Because if you have money, let's talk. If not, you're not worth my time."
When Mr. Valentine answered, and the man responded "Oh, so you don't actually LIVE (with a long emphasis on live, says Mr. Valentine) up here" what he was really thinking was "Ah. So you can't afford to live up here. Waste of my time, then."
I know some people will say we are just perceiving this, but it's real and it happens TOO MUCH. Worse, it often happens from people in the church! *gasp* These are the same people who THINK they're doing everything right, too: taking sacrament, paying tithing, going to the temple. People that other people look up to and want to emulate.
Now, don't get me wrong. Not all LDS people are like this. Not all of ANY people are like this. But the ones that are MAKE snobbiness a real, live thing.
And yet, a fellow neighbor doesn't amount to anything in their eyes because they can't literally "afford" to be their neighbor. This man was not interested in who my husband was until he could first weed out where he lived and what he did for a living.
And yet......they were friends in high school. Interestingly enough, THEY GREW UP IN THE SAME NEIGHBORHOOD.
Let's talk, his actions say, if you make as much as I do. If not, you're not worth the time of day.
This person is preaching the gospel, has a calling AND a temple recommend?
What a hypocrite. These are the principles I get so fired up about. And they're everywhere, not JUST in the LDS church.
However, my heart especially breaks when it happens in our church.
And, yeah, I've said a few things about living in the ghetto, too. I'll clarify that it's the crime and ignorance I'm talking about, and bad parenting that leaves kids on the street and on drugs, not the actual people who are trying to change. There are some truly good hearts in the ghetto and they are doing the best they can to make a living and support their families. But there are also a lot of sex offenders and criminals who simply won't change despite the help they are given. You take the bad with the good. And to emphasize this point, here is a scripture which Mr. Valentine recalled while he told me the story on the phone this evening:
For those of you not current on scriptures and such, Nazareth is the equivalent of "the ghetto", back in the day. And Jesus Christ himself came from Nazareth.
John 1:46
And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
I'm not saying I'm holier than thou for pointing this out. I'm a sinner, for crying out loud. But it's a good concept to ponder, as we, Dear Blog Readers and myself, go about our day. I propose we all try to reach out to people outside our comfort zone during the remainder of the year and see how it might bless our lives. Who knows...we might be pleasantly surprised!
This evening, my husband was studying for his final at the local Barnes and Noble up here on "The Hill".
"The Hill" is known in our city for being the wealthiest area to live. People who live up here are usually rich.
(And/or their homes burned down and they are here in a temporary apartment on insurance money.)
Either way, most people THINK only the rich people live up here but we, Dear Blog Readers, know this is not always the case.
"The Hill" is full of fancy cars and posh, snobby people. Mostly. Not all, but a good majority. And yet, if these people went to live in, say, Los Angeles or better yet, Beverly Hills they'd be simple trifles in a bustling REAL city with REAL money. Put in their place, a bit.
It's like the little pretend wannabe gangstas in town. I always wonder how gangsta the pretend wannabe gangsta would be if he moved to, say, Compton where real, live gangstas with guns & stuff live.
So, a question/observation: upon meeting someone, WHY do people, particularly those with money, begin conversations by having to find out first WHERE YOU LIVE and WHAT YOU DO before they are willing to go any further in conversation with you?
I believe by asking these questions the person is trying to figure out where they fall on the totem poll: Should they file in above you, as in "see ya wouldn't wanna be ya" or below you, as in "wish I could be like you, maybe if I hang around you long enough it will rub off or something".
Meanwhile, at the local Barnes & Noble this evening:
An LDS man from "The Hill" walked up to Mr. Valentine and said: Hey, how's it going, man?
Mr. Valentine: Hey, man! Haven't seen you in a while! How's the family?
Man from "The Hill": They're good. RaeAnn's at home with our kids. Running a few errands after work. *hint of pride* Been up at Rockpoint (a physician clinic) for the last three years.
Mr. Valentine: That's cool, man. What have you all been up to this summer? How many kids?
Man from "The Hill": Got five - two boys and three girls. We just got back from our lake cabin last weekend. Hey, what ward are you in - where do you live?
Mr. Valentine: The Lodges at Adirondack.
Man from "The Hill": Oh, so you're in first ward, then?
Mr. Valentine: Actually, no, we're in third ward. We had a house fire so we're up here temporarily while it's being fixed.
Man from "The Hill": *notable attitude change* Oh, so you don't actually LIVE up here, then?
Mr. Valentine: No.
Man from "The Hill": Ah. *long pause of awkward silence* Hey, well I'll let you get back to work. You look like you've got some busy work there. Hey, nice seeing ya.
Mr. Valentine: See ya.
OBSERVATIONS:
Mr. Valentine was so shocked by this conversation that he called me right away to see if he perceived it correctly. And, I believe he did. He tells me this happens to him ALL THE TIME during sales appointments, because he's constantly meeting with wealthy people. He tells me that unless he lies his way though the "where do you live" question, the client will not buy from him.
He mentioned that things changed in the conversation, visibly, once the man realized we did not live on "The Hill" and that we lived in the poorest church ward in the city.
In fact, what the man was really asking when he asked where we lived was "How much money do you have?. Because if you have money, let's talk. If not, you're not worth my time."
When Mr. Valentine answered, and the man responded "Oh, so you don't actually LIVE (with a long emphasis on live, says Mr. Valentine) up here" what he was really thinking was "Ah. So you can't afford to live up here. Waste of my time, then."
I know some people will say we are just perceiving this, but it's real and it happens TOO MUCH. Worse, it often happens from people in the church! *gasp* These are the same people who THINK they're doing everything right, too: taking sacrament, paying tithing, going to the temple. People that other people look up to and want to emulate.
Now, don't get me wrong. Not all LDS people are like this. Not all of ANY people are like this. But the ones that are MAKE snobbiness a real, live thing.
And yet, a fellow neighbor doesn't amount to anything in their eyes because they can't literally "afford" to be their neighbor. This man was not interested in who my husband was until he could first weed out where he lived and what he did for a living.
And yet......they were friends in high school. Interestingly enough, THEY GREW UP IN THE SAME NEIGHBORHOOD.
Let's talk, his actions say, if you make as much as I do. If not, you're not worth the time of day.
This person is preaching the gospel, has a calling AND a temple recommend?
What a hypocrite. These are the principles I get so fired up about. And they're everywhere, not JUST in the LDS church.
However, my heart especially breaks when it happens in our church.
And, yeah, I've said a few things about living in the ghetto, too. I'll clarify that it's the crime and ignorance I'm talking about, and bad parenting that leaves kids on the street and on drugs, not the actual people who are trying to change. There are some truly good hearts in the ghetto and they are doing the best they can to make a living and support their families. But there are also a lot of sex offenders and criminals who simply won't change despite the help they are given. You take the bad with the good. And to emphasize this point, here is a scripture which Mr. Valentine recalled while he told me the story on the phone this evening:
For those of you not current on scriptures and such, Nazareth is the equivalent of "the ghetto", back in the day. And Jesus Christ himself came from Nazareth.
John 1:46
And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
I'm not saying I'm holier than thou for pointing this out. I'm a sinner, for crying out loud. But it's a good concept to ponder, as we, Dear Blog Readers and myself, go about our day. I propose we all try to reach out to people outside our comfort zone during the remainder of the year and see how it might bless our lives. Who knows...we might be pleasantly surprised!
Reader Comments (12)
Hmm. I wonder if our ward would be like that. I really don't think so. I certainly don't care how much money anyone makes and what people do for a living is probably my 40th question for them sometimes. Weird. Sorry that it's getting in the way of his work. I say work the location as long as you can!
I grew up in a house that was falling apart a inn older area of my town. Since the town was so small there were many affluent people in our ward. Many who took pity on me and welcomed me into there homes and lives. Maybe pity isn't the right word but it is all I can think of. That is a great example of fellowship and love. But I also was subject to the opposite end of the spectrum. People who wouldn't allow their children to spend time with me because of my home and living circumstances. Looking back I can only feel sad for those who aren't open enough to helping a poor lost soul in need. How empty their lives must be as they never expanded the social circle they were in. How many wonderful lives they could have been a part of. This man your husband encountered is one of those sad people. How empty and lonely that life must be.
i am blessed to be in a "ritzy" ward where all are still very humble imo...becase we are as poor as church mice, if not poorer, and we are treated as equals, at least i feel like we are...i despise when ppl just you on money, job, car, house, etc instead of on who you really are...ppl need to remember what is really important, not the stuff that goes away when we die...kwim?
that should say "judge you" not "just you"
This happens all the time, and I don't think at all that it's just the way you preceive it. Some people are all about seeing how much they can get from others. If money and connections is all that's important, then yeah, that's going to be the first thing they ask about. It's sad, but it happens everywhere.
Do you know that I avoid telling people my husband is a physician when I meet them? They ask what my husband does and I tell them he works at the hospital. If they persist, I will eventually tell them he is a physician there. Rarely bring up that he is the director in a first conversation. Because it goes both ways... people will treat us differently if they know we make a lot of money. They will automatically assume certain things about "the doctor's wife" and our family and I would rather they make conclusions based on who we really are before they find out we make decent money. I guess I am saying the judging isn't one directional.
I am surprised, though, that you think someone who is acting snobby would be allowed a calling and temple recommend. Don't you think they are trying to be better and realize they are imperfect (even if they don't realize where the imperfection lies)? If you had to be perfect to go to the temple, there wouldn't be any attendance. We go there to become better people- so those living worthily but with flaws (big or small) should be the ones attending, right?
By the way I like to ask what people do for a living so I have a jumping off point for a conversation. Often people like what they are doing and enjoy telling about it. Other times they are unhappy and like to explain what they think would make it better or what they are hoping to do to move on. I don't think I ask people where they live unless I am looking for commonality in friends, wards, school districts, playdate spots, etc.
Totally true, Charlotte and Kelly. It does go both directions.
And, you're right, we don't have to be perfect to go to the temple. This one just got me because the man had a very high calling, Mr. V has heard.
Totally true, you can ask these questions innocently, as well. I think the fishing for info thing is what gets me, when it's just for the purpose of knowing ones financial situation.
I can see where it's difficult on your end, Charlotte - not knowing if people like you for the money/doctors wife thing, or if they genuinely want to get to know you. I can understand your point here.
It isn't just that. It is that some people will treat me like I am a snob if they know we make money right away. They will automatically assume I am unwilling to be friends with them or get nervous that I am judging them all the time or defer to us as though we are their superior. Whereas if they know us as people first they are less likely to act that way. Not everyone, but often enough to notice.
You couldn't have said this any better. I live in a ward with hills. I happen to live at the bottom of the hill. We have a cute small house that we can afford. Yet our neighborhood is referred to from the pulpit and most people in the ward as "down there."
It is funny because I have been in a rich ward and felt welcomed and comfortable and happy. Then we moved to this ward and I feel unwelcomed and inferior.
Yes, it's bizarre. Cause I've heard from many where this ISN'T happening. And then it seems maybe in a pocket or two within a city it is happening and it's overwhelming - most of the people "down there" sense it. Don't know what it is, exactly. One size doesn't fit all, they aren't ALL like that, as Charlotte mentions, but a few too many are.
You know... some people are just retarded. Next time the "where do you live" topic comes up... just tell them you're there temporarily while you're "remodeling" your home.... or something... if they're not going to get to know you anyway, let them have fun with their imagination while your home is repaired :)
We are in an area where people can be like that, too. My husband is an accountant (not a CPA or anything like that) and on the city council for our town.... but we're just "normal" everyday Joes, who don't care about keeping up with the Joneses or Maxwells or Smiths or McCrankies.... We live in a small house with a semi- retarded floor plan, but it's our home and while I would love to live in some of the LARGE and AWESOME ENTERTAINING homes that some of my friends live in, I heart my very, very small mortgage payment.
Sometimes, man, you just gotta laugh it off. Those "uber wealthy" show off type people are probably ooodles in debt and there's most likely something lacking in their life for them to be that kind of snobby to others. A genuinely happy and content person has no need to flaunt.
Stand on the high road, sistah.
Good for you Charlotte for not trying to brag. I wish I would meet more people like that. Most want everyone they meet to be impressed with their money. I am so tired of when I meet people for the time, they ask "so what do you do"? I mean, I know it's an easy question to start a conversation when you don't know someone very well but you can tell right away who the judgmental people are.