Saturday
19Dec2009
Why I'm a Mormon Democrat: A Manifesto, if you will, by Gabrielle Valentine
Saturday, December 19, 2009 at 10:23PM A large group of people see words in the media like "scare tactics", "liberties", and "propoganda" and FREAK OUT. They only hear what's said in the media and forget the big picture. They start thinking that evil Democrats and Obama are going to take all their rights away. Most recently, Republicans are freaking out because they are angry that a health care mandate will infringe on their liberties.
Please. I believe it's one of the greatest sins that we cannot work together as a nation and world. Not allowing someone who is dying the right to free medical care when they are begging - that's a sin, people. Perhaps by mandating this, it's not all about the Democrats "taking away liberties". It's about "one nation, under God" helping each other more. I don't get how a huge group of Mormons are SO AGAINST THEIR OWN PRESIDENT and speak so harshly of him and are so judgemental of him AND THE ENTIRE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. Don't we learn from a young age that "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."?
We are real people, not "Evil" not "Scary"-- just "people".
We Mormon Democrats want our freedoms, just like you Mormon Republicans do. We want freedoms like the right to live and the right to Health Care, too, and yet -- we're JUMPED on and judged and pooled into the "EVIL" group with Obama. Because WATCH OUT -- he's SO super Evil, right?
For wanting to pass a health care bill, am I correct? He's Evil? He's using "conspiracies" and "scare tactics" and is a "part of the Taliban"? Really, Mormon Republicans? For real?
Evil. That's a strong word. Keep in mind, I actually liked Bush, Mormon Republicans. I didn't call him Evil. Sure, I laughed at the SNL spoofs. But I didn't put him in the same pool with Hitler or murderers or rapists. And I expect the same sort of treatment for Obama - he's not Evil. Please don't allow such nasty comments about Democrats (real people) and Obama (a real person, too) to circulate any longer. It's that nastiness that keeps us, as a nation, from getting anywhere constructive.
Conservatives say that people should just have common sense and the government should stop getting in the way. Well, imagine if there were no laws, Mormon Republicans? In a huge country like ours you cannot just let people govern themselves with the idea that they SHOULD act a certain way and it will all work out fine. That will never happen. What WOULD happen without government intervention is that smaller groups would band together and form independent little "nations" within our nation. There would be chaos and the good would fight the bad, there would still be wars, only on our own turf - in the USA. Lots of Mormon Republicans are angry that the Democrats are "taking their constitutional rights away" and "taxing them into oblivion".
Please. Can't anyone see the bigger picture, for once?
SHOULD people have common sense? Of course! SHOULD people get to choose if they want health care or not? Sure. But the MAJORITY of people NEED health care. There are many many people dying. IF YOU LOVE ME, FEED MY SHEEP. Aren't those American's without health care "sheep", too? How would Jesus view this?
Mormons, by religion, agree that paying a 10% tithe is commanded by God. But when the word "taxes" are spoken they freak out. So it's RIGHT when it's called "tithing", but when it's called "taxes" it becomes a selfish thing? As in "Don't take MY rights away". "Don't tax ME to oblivion". Because taxes infringe upon your "rights", correct? Even though they are helping those in need as well.
We filed bankruptcy last year and foreclosed on our home due to an emergency surgery I needed during the one month of my life I did not have health insurance. There was no conspiracy or scare tactic to this -- if a law had been in effect that mandated health insurance we would have kept our home and our credit would have been fine.
We filed bankruptcy last year and foreclosed on our home due to an emergency surgery I needed during the one month of my life I did not have health insurance. There was no conspiracy or scare tactic to this -- if a law had been in effect that mandated health insurance we would have kept our home and our credit would have been fine.
It's no wonder that the gay population and huge pockets of the entire United States hate us and pick on us.
And don't think for a second that just because Glenn Beck says it - that it's RIGHT or even inspired of God. Too many people follow his preachings ("Obama is hitler") like HE'S our Prophet and that just because he said it - it's OKAY to follow it and even preach it, too, in the same harsh and nasty way because they feel entitled to. It MUST be okay, if Mr. Beck and other similar Republican Anti-Obama reporters say it, right?
I'm tired of being judged, that's for sure. It makes me not want to go to church at times. Imagine how Democratic investigaters feel? And I know for a fact I'm not the only person who feels this way.
I and a large group of Mormon DEMOCRATS feel very judged by their fellow Mormon Republicans. For example, after General Conference, a Mormon Republican women snapped at me "I see you voted Obama. How's THAT working out for ya?". THAT was the one thing on her mind, and right after conference. What a snippy thing to say to me.
Jesus would have given to the poor and helped the needy - well THAT's what socialism does and what the Democrats want to have happen. Our Mormon laws have changed - look at the lengths of the clothes we wear. Look at polygamy. Things change with the times. Prophets receive new revelation and we follow it. And yet, we stick to this ONE mention of Socialism in the 50's by a speaker during a conference that vaguely mentioned Socialism (as it related to the USSR at that time) and take it WAY out of context and now - whoa - Socialism is all SUPER bad and evil, too. It's blind ignorance. I wish people would research a little more and really get to the bottom of where and how these things even got started. Most Mormons believe Socialism is VERY BAD. That gay people are bad. That all Democratic people are bad and evil. Do Mormons REALLY KNOW WHY "fill in the blank here" is bad? Or do they just pass the judgement because they are "supposed" to. Have they ever tried to befriend a gay person to see how he really feels? To be there for him or her during what must be a difficult struggle? To see kind of judgement he faces - to continue to be a true friend despite their own beliefs?
Have they ever lost a family member because they couldn't afford insurance? This health care bill SHOULD create a way to help everyone who is in need. It's not about taking your liberties away - yet, unfortunately, with the help of reporters like Glenn Beck - those words are ALL PEOPLE HEAR anymore. They aren't seeing the larger, more Christ-like picture. Neither are the senators who just need to come together and do what's best for the American people.
PEOPLE SHOULDN'T DIE SO A COMPANY CAN MAKE A PROFIT. That's SINFUL. Actually, not to be rude to Mr. Beck but: it's common sense, right?
A nation as large as ours needs to mandate a few things or they aren't taking care of their "sheep". And if the constitution was inspired of God, and Jesus said "if you love me feed my sheep" then doesn't it make sense that the U.S. government SHOULD mandate health care for everyone?
Also - in a nation like ours people WITH common sense have to account for those WITHOUT common sense. The Prophet speaks of helping others and serving others - well, THAT'S THE US WELFARE SYSTEM, Mormon Republicans. Without it, people like us wouldn't be able to pay rent. I'm not trying to be rude to YOU, this is more a rant to all those, particularly Mormons, who are supposed to be setting an example for the world. Instead, MOST Mormon Republicans quite blindly follow the media and jump on their President and millions of Democrats who are just trying to help one another because they hear words like "scare tactics" "conspiracy" and "propoganda" then think ALL their rights are thus threatened without looking at the bigger picture.
What would Jesus do with the health care situation?
FURTHERMORE - I cannot believe the NASTY things I've heard Mormons say about Obama. He's human. He's got a family. You can see his love for his family in his eyes when you see them together. He's our president. He's probably doing the best that he, as a human man can do. He probably wanted to do a lot more and because of stubborn senators, can't.
Here is a hypothetical question for those against more a more Democratic philosophy: When you get to Heaven's gate, will Jesus will agree with you that YOUR rights were so infringed upon that it was okay to let all those people begging for help die? Will he agree that it was okay to not give YOUR tax dollars to help them out? Will he agree that it was just fine to not befriend the gay person just because he was gay?
The list goes on and on and on. And I'm sick of it. I am sickened and saddened by this attitude, by many fellow Mormons, who think they are being so CHRIST-LIKE in their bigoted ignorant attitudes. It's NOT RIGHT. It's not what God would have us do.
That attitude of so many who refuse to help with their tax dollars or even just speak kindly about people in need, like illegal aliens or gay people, because they think all their rights are being taken away and that THEY shouldn't have to give their hard earned time or money - it's very un-Christ-like.
That attitude of so many who refuse to help with their tax dollars or even just speak kindly about people in need, like illegal aliens or gay people, because they think all their rights are being taken away and that THEY shouldn't have to give their hard earned time or money - it's very un-Christ-like.
I'm frankly ashamed to be lumped into this group of people who speak this way, who go around town acting like they ARE so Christ-like.
It's no wonder Mormons are so hated. And yet, I STILL have a firm testimony that the LDS Church doctrine and principles are true. I have a firm testimony of the power of prayer, faith, love, the commandments, blessings, tithing.....I just know that our Church (with perhaps the exception of the First Presidency and Apostles) is run by men and that men are not perfect.
I love what I know. And what I know sets me free and allows me to help and love others without bigotry, fear or prejudice.
Reader Comments (52)
I'm a Mormon independent and I approve of this Manifesto.
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Gabrielle thank you for this post! I enjoyed it quite a bit. But even more than that I think it is very well to the point and says what many people are thinking and feeling but often times are too afraid to say!
About 6 months ago, a reporter (not in the sense that Glenn Beck claims to be a reporter, but a real reporter for the SLC Tribune) wrote a story about how she and other liberal mormons in the state of Utah were beginning to feel more and more alienated by the more dominant, super majority of republicans in the state who believe in bullying people to follow their beliefs. She talked about the bad experiences that these liberal mormons were having in congregations all across the state ever since President Obama was elected. It was amazing to hear the excuses given by members as they read and commented on her story. They wanted to do whatever it took to prove that they were not the bad guys, the democrats were. They couldnt even take a simple statement of fact, that the liberal members were feeling alienated and think about how they might be contributed.
Likewise, my wife and I at the time lived in SLC, UT and felt this from our neighbors, ward members and ward leaders. We had Elder's Quorum lessons all about Mitt Romney the modern day prophet and how we should pray for our nation that we have handed it to the enemy. We made no secret of our beliefs but we also did not set out to create enemies, but neither myself or my wife could sit by idly listening to the disgusting ideas being spewed from those we thought we could trust. It was like they became a completely different kind of people, not the kind we knew and loved and trusted, but a kind that we didnt feel comfortable being around or supporting.
Now I don't fully agree with what you said, but hey thats the beauty of living freely eh? I agree with most everything you said, although I will say that I didn't like bush. I dont think he was a good person or a good president (not that you do) and I do think that as a GOOD American and a GOOD human being and a GOOD member of the church, I have an obligation to stand up and say something about it. Yes we believe in supporting the law of the land, but we also live in a land where that law allows us to legally remove a president from office for doing a bad job. Even if that is only done through an election it is still the right thing to do. I dont think you necessarily will argue with that because I think really your point comes down to this, No matter what these mormon republicans think about President Obama, he is our LEGALLY elected President and if you don't like it, then do something constructive to fix the situation. Just because you dont like him, doesnt make him a terrorist (bush doctrine) or evil or of the devil. It doesnt make him the anti christ or any other number of names I have heard him called. And calling him such will not change the fact that he is legally our President and like him or not, he will be leading our nation. And Sorry to say (or not sorry really) He was elected because the people were TIRED of the same old stuff and it was time for a change. The people chose him to change our nation's path and that is exactly what he is doing. So to say that he is doing it wrong or is evil just because you, the republican doesnt like how he is doing it, when we as a nation had an agenda to remove republicans from office, because we dont like how you were doing it.... Well that doesnt hold much clout!
The problem I see today is that now they have someone else in charge who they need to have a beef with, they need to pick a fight, why?? Because Glenn Beck tells them to! So they do, they pick their fight and they fight against anything President Obama supports... Not because they themselves will not benefit but because they need to have a reason to hate him! And his actions are not good enough. Sadly I myself have had this fight with my own family members some of whom have advocated his assassination. This has lead me to determine that I cannot be apart of a family that would even begin to discuss something like that. I took that information to the church headquarters. And the head of the church decided that they thought it was a funny joke and that perhaps it would be a good thing should he be knocked off.... I am disgusted and appalled. This will serve only one purpose and sadly I think it is by design; this will serve to tear us apart, as a people, as a church, as a nation. Divided we fall! And that is exactly where we are headed.
The excuses that are given, we are losing our rights, we hate taxes, socialism is evil... None of these hold any clout whatsoever. Socialism is not evil, as a matter of fact the core fundamentals of the gospel teach socialism as heavenly law! Losing our rights?? What rights have been lost? We lost a lot of rights under George W. Bush. We lost more than we have ever lost before as a nation. President Obama has not taken away our rights. Sadly when people state this, it shows a serious lack of intelligence. I once asked a group of republicans what they meant by that and to please list for me the rights that they were losing. The number 1 right listed was the right to freedom of speech. How? Well because they were speaking and President Obama isnt listening.. therefore, he is taking away their right to freedom of speech. I dont even know how to respond to that... a 5th grader is smarter than that!! Taxes?? TAXES?? come on, we as a middle class are paying LESS in taxes right now than under the beloved Ronald. Infact we have seen our taxes decreased under President Obama. This is just an invalid argument if for no other reason than none of us have the right to use ANY socialized program in this nation if we are unwilling to do our part and pay taxes. That includes public schools, public roads, freeways, bridges, Police, Fire department, Hospitals, Health Services (that are not private) The MILITARY THAT IS PROTECTING US ALL!!
Now if you want to complain about socialism, think about this: The church "socialized" the Missionary program many years ago. Yes indeed, when a missionary goes to a really expensive area, say Japan. Do you think he is paying that extra expense out of pocket?? No, that missionary will pay the same amount as the guy who goes to a really really cheap place. But the redistribution of wealth ensures that both have their needs met while serving the Lord!! Isnt that what we are all doing today? Serving the Lord? So why shouldnt we too have our needs met, even if we cannot afford it?
Well I have said enough. Thanks again Gabrielle!! You are awesome.
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I just want you to know that there is one more Mormon Democrat out here. I've got a liberal-leaning family, too. We think President Obama is a great man. (We're not in Utah, thank goodness.)
That's all I was going to say, but then I read Paul B. Yorke's comment and I would like some clarification on what he was talking about when he indicated that some church leaders thought that killing Obama was a funny joke. If you are reading, Paul, please explain.
Thanks for the post and for the comments.
Oh, and one more thing. I encourage everyone to read this article from the LDS newsroom at LDS.org. http://www.newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/the-mormon-ethic-of-civility
The last three paragraphs are especially pertinent to this discussion.
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thank you! I will definitely check out the link. I am always so happy to meet others with similar opinions!
Heart,
Gabby
Hello A Girl Called Dallan,
Its pretty simple really. The person who originally sent me the email is currently serving a mission. I chose to reach out to the missionary's leadership because as a representative of the church this is just in no way acceptable behavior and should never ever ever be tolerated. I attempted to contact their mission leadership or president but was directed at every attempt to church headquarters. I did reach several people at the church administration building, They directed me to people who investigate this sort of thing at the church headquarters. I spoke with a man there and directed all communications to him. After reviewing it, he came to the conclusion that the person did nothing wrong by sending such an email and that, it was actually quite funny. He also inadvertently indicated that it would be encouraging to see such an outcome! (the assassination)
Now of course he is by no means representative of the church as a whole. The problem here is the fact that even the leadership responsible for this missionary didn't find this serious enough to take any action. Now had the tables been turned, had this been a threat to George W. Bush, you can bet they would have. It is sad that it has come down to this. What kind of an example do we show to our non member brothers and sisters? How can we ever justify this type of behavior as peaceful Christians.
.-= Paul B. Yorke´s last blog ..http://viddle.me/48?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=gift-cards-or-cash-as-gifts" rel="nofollow">Gift Cards or Cash as Gifts?? =-.
BTW great link!! It was a great link and really helped my wife feel better. Often she feels that when she feels the way Gabrielle expressed in this blog post that she is doing something wrong or against the church. That those who speak out in church against our current secular leadership, are doing so in the name of the church (Especially since we've seen it coming from church leadership. We even had one tell us that to question him (as bishop) would cost us our temple recommends). So this is a very encouraging press release for us both. Thanks
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Gabrielle you should talk to my wife sometime. She is on facebook as well. She has your same beliefs and I know would love to meet someone new.
.-= Paul B. Yorke´s last blog ..http://viddle.me/48?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=gift-cards-or-cash-as-gifts" rel="nofollow">Gift Cards or Cash as Gifts?? =-.
After reading this blog, I have come to the conclusion that you have no basic understanding on the differences between what God commands us as PEOPLE to do, and what the Government should do. And you're too busy arguing against your own created strawmen (Glenn Beck is a reporter? You really are a dunce if you think that) so you can look big and powerful. Look at me! I'm brave and smart, because I'm a Mormon who is also a Democrat!
So, did you rally against all your fellow Democrats who wanted Bush killed? Those who called for his death countless times at rallies? Were you just as upset when he was compared to Hitler? To compare what has happened to Obama is EXTREMELY mild compared to the rhetoric Bush had to endure from your side of the aisle. As the saying goes, pull the beam out of your own eye, then worry about your neighbors.
Taxes are not the same thing as tithing. How you can conflate the two things together is mind boggling. Mormons pay their tithing because they are commanded by God to do so. People also pay their taxes because (wait for it!) they are also commanded by God to do so. So why is it then wrong that they want the government to spend their tax money the way they want it spent? Would you continue paying your tithing if the leaders of the church suddenly said, "Hey, we decided we're going to fund some brothels out in Denmark with Tithing money because we think we can make a profit. Sure it's immoral what those girls are doing, but they aren't members so who cares. Just keep that money flowing." It's a stupid, extreme scenario, but if it occurred would you keep paying your tithing? I sure wouldn't, because I know what's right and what's wrong. Same here. I don't want my tax dollars funding programs I don't agree with, so I work within the system to change it. What's wrong with that? According to you it seems, I'm a horrible person because I should just gladly pay my taxes because they "help people". Who are they helping? It's not like the war on povery was a resounding success when the same percentage of people are still in poverty. Thanks LBJ!
But strangely enough, I have to wonder how Health care suddenly became a right. Because if you'll remember, the Constitution lays out the fact that all of our rights come from the Big Man upstairs. That's why the Government can't intrude upon them. And interestingly enough, we do have one right that is based on a good, the right to bear arms. And yet, how come the government hasn't created a subsidy program to help people buy guns? It's right there in the Constitution, but I don't see people screaming for the government to buy their guns for them (because it's my RIGHT!) So while health care may very well be a right (I would disagree but that's not the core of my argument here, is it?) that doesn't mean that the government has to subsidize it. If so, I want my free gun and I want it now.
Socialism is evil. It destroys the individual. Socialism takes away our free agency. Which is precisely why we are here, to learn and use our free agency, is it not? How do I have the choice to help my fellow man, if I'm FORCED to do it by the government? How does that help me progress as an individual? How can I come to the conclusion that it feels great to do things for other people, if I can just say, "Well, thank our lords in Congress for mandating I pay for everyone's healthcare, welfare, social security, and medicare! I don't have to do anything for anyone ever again! Translate me now, Obama, I'm saved!"
Brendan, Socialism is not evil. Actually, our gospel is based on socialistic principles. Your comment, essentially, called Christ's gospel principles we stand for Evil.
You make a fine example of my point by your comment, here, and YOU are precisely the type of ignorant person I am writing to.
Your views represent selfishness and ignorance. That's far from Christianity, wouldn't you say?
This is not about health care being a constitutional right it's about health care being the RIGHT THING TO DO. How is denying a sick or dying person health care the right thing to do in terms of gospel principles? When we as a society have the means to provide this care and deny it and then even PROFIT from it - that's sinful. It's wrong. I cannot understand how you can support Christ's way yet believe it's right to deny those begging for medical help the care they need when we have the means to provide it and don't.
Ta ta!
Gabby
Freaking Love this blog gabby! and I have been saying some of this stuff for years. We studied Socialism and Communism A LOT in history and it is NOT a bad idea. In politics communism and Socialism is always however corrupted therefore true socialism and communism has never been fully instigated. But it is a good idea and I agree that " our gospel is based on socialistic principles. " I have been saying that for a while. .I dont understand how he can care about humans and give and give but not sacrifice a little for people like my family to have health insurance. My good friends family has to pay over 5000$ a month and that is AFTER health insurance for there childs medicine. No one deserves that. Or to be denied because they have juvenile diabetes. URGH sorry I could go on forever...
Also if we are going to say socialism takes away free agency... So does the chruch. To get a temple recommend you cant do that you want necessarily. Lord knows I would love a beer but because I am bound by sacred rules I cant. Cant have a temple recommend and a beer = free agency being taken away. and granted it is a choice I make, but so is living in this country. You don't like it... Get out.
Hear, hear Gabby!!
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Thank you, Sara! Excellent point!!!
The LDS religion is most certainly based upon many socialist principles. It is all about the greater good of the people.
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I am utterly amazed. I an Emergent Christian.... and I have family members that are Mormon...
I am so proud and moved that there are individuals that are willing to say that being God's image bearers means more than: "not doing this, and not doing that", but rather it is how we engage those who are in need. How we tend to the least of us.
We are all in the same boat.
Thanks for this!
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When all the nasty right-wingers drive you out, feel free to become a Methodist. We will love you like you deserve to be loved.
(P.S. My children are descended from Brigham Young's excommunicated brother. I know what I'm talking about.) :-D
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So I have seen socialism at it's finest, and let me tell you it isn't what you want. Do you want to live in the exact same 2 bedroom one bathroom apt, and a kitchen that you can barely fit in just like every other person on the street?! Do you want to have to take public transportation everywhere you go, standing at bus stops for 30 min. at a time, just to go to the market, and then you can't pack up your groceries in a car and take them home, you have to carry them on the bus or the few blocks if you happen to live close to one, and this is difficult which results in going to the market everyday. Sounds fun! The hospitals by the way are filthy! I didn't even dare sit down. And decided I would take my chances with the doctor down the street. I didn't even know if he really went to medical school. He ran it out of his home, secretly. Also money was hard to come by, no one has their own computers, they have to go to an internet cafe. And they are expensive. I don't know about you , but I don't really think that is the kind of life I want, so don't tell me socialism is better than what we have here, because from what I have read, you haven't experienced much of what socialism really is. And I do believe things would be a little better here at first than over where I lived, but then they would come out to be just the same, people don't appreciate things that they don't earn.
Dear Anonymous,
Right. Socialism and Communism never worked in a finer sense because greedy leaders were at the head. Come on, do you REALLY think I'm saying "LET'S GO BACK TO USSR STYLE COMMUNISM?". No way. But the idea that we could do more as a society by working together? Yes, absolutely. We could take some of the GOOD ideals from those socialistic countries (some of which have massive Church membership by the way as well as universal health care) and help our fellow man more.
It's the CONCEPTS which I am speaking of that we could learn a little bit from. I'm NOT saying let's all become USSR Communists and Socialists.
What I AM saying is that we could be kinder to our fellow man and do what's right - which would be helping those in need without a "what's in it for me?", "the hell if you're gonna tax ME to help those people" or "don't take MY liberties away so others can have healthcare".
And I also realize that the Government needs to step up and do what's right for the people as well.
Like Senator Orin Hatch, Utah, who gave a nonchalant "thumbs down" when it was his turn to vote for health care reform. The nonchalant thumbs down by this man who is supported by a near entire state of Mormons could have damned more than 30 million people. TO THEIR DEATHS. And it was FIERCELY supported! That's sinful! And the reason? So those Mormons could keep their "liberties" and not have to pay more taxes.
HUH?! Seriously - think about that a minute. I don't understand how that's right or in tune with the gospel.
For the most part, the US society is all me, me, me. Our government is all about financial profits. And it could be so much different. But because we believe we're "divine" and "right" about the gospel....well, Dear Mormons, we need to stand up then and act RIGHT. How could you support denying millions of men and women access to health care that could save their lives? How can you call yourself a good Mormon and support that?! It's a fair question. I'm not trying to be mean.
In addition, harsh judgement of our fellow sons and daughters of God (including but not limited to: illegal aliens, homosexuals and homeless people) while going through the motions of being "Good Mormons" drives me insane.
Not ALL people are like this, but I see it daily in my interactions too often than not from people online, and in my home Ward and Stake.
For example, going to church and holding a temple recommend and then allowing people to write comments on your facebook wall about assassinating the president - and being okay with it and joining in IS WRONG. Or saying that "all your rights" (ALL? - come on) will be taken away if you have to pay a hardly noticeable amount in taxes so more people can obtain affordable health care - WHEN YOU YOURSELF ARE ON WELFARE is kind of hypocritical.
Too many think we should help our "own kind" and to hell with the rest because they should take care of their own needs, right? But the buck doesn't stop with church members. We could all be a little more charitable to those OUTSIDE the church as well, without the harsh judgement and selfish attitudes.
"Our gospel is based on socialistic principles"... Marion G Romney argues that they are in fact opposites:
http://runwin.tripod.com/socialism.html
Yes. And that was written in 1966. And I did mention that I recognized that the United States wasn't ever going to turn into a communist/socialist USSR in my comments under the post. And Marion G Romney's comments are based on a USSR style socialism. I speak of socialistic principles in the kindest most Christian way possible. Romney speaks of socialism in terms of the principle being run by an evil leader. I speak of it differently. Primarily in terms of health care.
My concept here is that perhaps our Constitution should have even more rights which help others. THAT is the way we could use more socialistic principles to make things better, all around by changing the constitution to allow it to add health care as a right. Of course, people will abuse that, and that's sad. But, just as some believe the government should be better and just fix itself, I think people will not ever fix anything unless they come together to truly help those in need and to stop arguing. And that's not going to happen. Perhaps a constitutional amendment could be made which does not deny health care to others. Perhaps IT COULD work. Please don't say IT WON'T. Because it DOES work in Great Britian. It DOES work in France. It DOES work in Canada. American's don't seem to think it will work here, but I sure know a lot of Canadians and Europeans who enjoy their constitutional rights to health care in other countries. And if the US is SO divinely inspired via it's constitution, why can't we find an EVEN BETTER way to make it work to take the best of the examples we see from other countries and make it better here? Fair question. America is supposedly the best, right? Well, it's failing in the sense of health care.
If the constitution and our founding fathers really WERE divinely inspired, then how about the Declaration of Independence? ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL is then A FACT. All men are equal, including gay men and women and babies and people who want to live and people who want to die. If people TRULY have free agency, then BY ALL MEANS - let them use it. LET GAY PEOPLE MARRY, THEN. And what about abortion. Don't those embryos have a right to live? Well, why doesn't a 20 year old have that same right to keep living?
Has anyone ever stopped to wonder if maybe, just maybe, our constitution could be improved? Even a little? If maybe there are a few tweeks needed because just like Mormons are no longer polygamists and no longer wear thermal to the ankle style undergarments - maybe - that 1966 talk on Socialism wasn't considering that health care could be worked into our constitution for the betterment of our nation in the year 2010?
I suppose my point is that we're getting stuck in a rut BECAUSE of the Constitution because no one feels they could take it a step further - towards perfection or Godliness. So we stop. We stop and say things like "it infringes upon my liberties" to mandate health care. But maybe? MAYBE God is answering the prayers of millions who are asking to live. Ever thought about that? And maybe the senate is wrong and we're all wrong by doing it THIS way - maybe it SHOULD have been done with less corruption.
You know? It's ALL MESSED UP. We're not perfect, neither is our government. Yes, it's gotten out of hand. I agree with this. But why stop there? Why not keep trying to save your liberties AND fight for MORE rights? Rights that PROTECT humans? Like health care? Can you tell me why we shouldn't improve the constitution, which was written in the 1700's? Please tell me exactly where and who says the constitution was divinely inspired and IN EXACTLY WHICH WAYS. Because when I look that up, it doesn't say we should vote against health care and gay marriage. Sorry. If you find that, exactly, maybe I'd change my opinion a little.
But here's the kicker.....a big point of the Book of Mormon is that Christ came to see other people in the Americas. Christ loved those people, too, and believed they were just as important as those in the the Holy Land. Correct? So, okay - another fair question: WHY IS OUR CONSTITUTION THE ONLY DIVINELY INSPIRED CONSTITUTION AROUND? And by constitution I mean "law of the land". What about Great Britain's law of their land? They have universal health care. What about the laws of France. Argentina? Sweden? Tonga? Some of these countries do - GASP - all right, too. Heck, some of them do BETTER. They have less crime. They have MORE freedoms. GASP. They have universal health care. These are the types of wide eyed questions I have for God when I pray. And you know? More and more, I see that I'M NOT WRONG FOR COMING TO THESE CONCLUSIONS. When you really think about that - why is America so much better than those other countries? That's quite a conceited thought, really. So why is our constitution the ONLY, the BEST, the ABSOLUTE. It's not. There are other countries with good ideas and principles (and this is what I meant by socialism - if we took the good parts of the principle and left out the bad parts).
Elder Dallin H. Oaks states that "The rule of law is the basis of liberty" in his talk about certain ways in which the constitution could have been divinely inspired. Well, LAWS CAN CHANGE. So when the government which we've agreed to uphold via the articles of faith make a change, such as mandating health care, well - that's not exactly taking your liberties away. It's just making a new law.
Here is the churches official stance:
“We believe that governments were instituted of God for the benefit of man; and that he holds men accountable for their acts in relation to them. …
“We believe that all men are bound to sustain and uphold the respective governments in which they reside.” (D&C 134:1, 5.)
So, I'm sorry if you do not like what I say and if we disagree because, really, I'd love it if we agreed more as a society. But I STILL don't see this stance saying it's taking your liberties away by our government coming up with a new law that mandates health care for all. Maybe it's not mandating it the way you'd like it to. Maybe it's too expensive. Maybe Senators were paid for the vote they made. But maybe - maybe it's God's plan. Maybe. You CAN tell me it's not. But you cannot PROVE that it's not. Only God can tell me it's not. And, from what I see and read and feel via the gift of the Holy Ghost which I received, just as you did, IT'S WHAT SHOULD BE DONE. It's the right thing to do.
You made a lot of assumptions based on the small comment I made. Seeing as how I never said anything about gays rights, abortion, or the elasticity of the Constitution I'll go ahead and leave those topics for another discussion. All I said was that Marion G Romney disagrees with socialism. Whether it was written half a century ago or not doesn't change the principles that he teaches. Socialism is socialism, no matter what year it is. I see what you're saying- that certain things about socialism seem Christian but here's what MGR (among others) are trying to help people understand: Charity stops being charity when it is forced. Giving to those in need is Christ-like...but forcing others to give to those in need (socialism) is the opposite of Christian action. So the reason socialism is the opposite of the gospel of Christ is because it is based on force, not choice.
Ezra Taft Benson spoke specifically about socialism and government ran health-care in this speech (the truths in this speech have no expiration date): http://www.latterdayconservative.com/articles/ezra-taft-benson/freedom-and-free-enterprise
Thank you for the clarification, Paul.
I again encourage everyone to read the last three paragraphs, if not the whole, of this press release.
http://www.newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/the-mormon-ethic-of-civility
It is not only acceptable to have political views which differ from the mainstream, but we are encouraged by our church leaders to keep a multi-party system alive. Do they not issue a letter each an every election season stating this very thing?
.-= A Girl Called Dallan´s last blog ..http://sevenwayssimple.blogspot.com/2009/12/christmas-spirit.html" rel="nofollow">"Christmas Spirit" =-.
"Here is a hypothetical question for those against more a more Democratic philosophy: When you get to Heaven’s gate, will Jesus will agree with you that YOUR rights were so infringed upon that it was okay to let all those people begging for help die?"
Since our rights are God-given, then He certainily will care if we respected them - same as all the other gifts He gives to use as part of the plan of salvation. However, He will not say that it was okay to stand by and let those people die - He will ask us why we didn't give of our own selves to help out the poor, needy, fatherless, aged, etc. Pointing a gun at someone else's head to demand that they give is not charity - either for you (who is pointing the gun or telling someone else to point the gun) or for the person who is giving out of compulsion.
No I am not a Mormon Republican - most of them are just as wrong on other issues. I am an LDS liberty-lover.
Gabrielle,
I was pleasantly suprised to run across this blog. I just wanted you to know that it gives me hope to know that there are Mormon's in Utah that actually think things through and not blindly follow LDS Republican rhetoric.
My family is Mormon, so was I when I was younger, but as I grew up and developed my own beliefs (socialized health care, gay rights, freedom...) I found that more and more they conflicted with what was being taught to me at church and left. That was 20 years ago. I lived in Salt Lake for over 10 years and finally had to move out to get away from the blind hatred towards anything and everything that was different.
I have to admit that I have developed some prejudice feelings towards the LDS church and the people that follow its teachings because of my experiences with its culture and even my own family and friends.
It gives me hope to see that there are LDS people who can still hold on to their faith while doing what's right for a country. I wanted to belive it was out there, but it seemed everyone I met was a zealot republican, and when you meet enough of them you start to believe they're all that way.
I just wanted you to know that your blog has restored my hope and I will towards overcoming my previous beliefs of the mormon people.
Thank you,
Kari