Friday
01Jan2010
Open Letter to People Who Continue to Say Welfare Programs & our Government are Enslaving Them: YOUR FREE AGENCY HAS NEVER BEEN TAKEN FROM YOU. We lazy people on welfare are not enslaving you. You pay for our welfare of your own free will. =)
Friday, January 1, 2010 at 2:47PM
Some people are still saying that government welfare programs take all their rights away and remove their free agency. Actually, YOU DO HAVE A CHOICE. You have several. You are not being forced to do anything here.
If mandated health care passes and you hate that, you can:
A) chose to not pay your taxes
B) chose to move out of the country
C) go be Amish or join a similar group where they go back to 1700’s style living and pay no taxes, legally, I might add
D) make your own, new Amish-style compound and live any which way you want to. In fact, go buy a private island and move there with like-minded individuals.
E) Go run for congress, win and begin to make the changes you say should be enacted.
However, if I chose to not pay my tithing I will not be in good standing with the church, in the same way neither will you be in good standing with your country if you do not pay your taxes. But there are several other, viable options here. You still don't technically HAVE to pay. No one is forcing you. Many of you have rebutted the choices I list here, saying "well, what kind of choices are those?!" Nevertheless, they are YOUR choices to make. We lazy people on welfare are not enslaving you. You pay for us out of your own free will. Thanks!
"Charity is only charity if it is given freely". Correct. And you give it freely. You have plenty of choices and if you don't want to pay for government welfare programs, then you are free to make another choice.
YOU ALL THINK I’M GOING AROUND IN CIRCLES HERE AND SOME OF YOU HAVE DISMISSED ME AS A LIBERAL NUT CASE BUT I HAVE A VALID, LOGICAL, CORRECT POINT HERE. You ARE NOT being forced to do anything by your government. You may not like the other choices, but they are still your choices to make. Before you bash health care, our government and those on welfare as being so firmly, absolutely WRONG, remember you DO have choices. You chose not to make them.
Case closed. I am done with these topics. Back to fun, light heartedness. I apologize for the seriousness lately. I have felt a drive to urge others to really think about these things and how narrow minded and judgemental it can be to speak of how righteous you are and then so quickly say you are so enslaved and use all the fearmonger words which cause unnecessary panic in a world already hyper-stressed out. What's the point of scaring all your fellow men into thinking their government is after them and then not stand up as righteously to MAKE THOSE FREE CHOICES WHICH WOULD MAKE THE POINTS YOU BASH? Don't pay taxes, then. Don't support those programs, literally, stop paying for them. You get that choice.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to continue homeschooling my children since I do work hard to do the things I *CAN* do on my own. Even if I can't afford health care or food at times, I've always tried to work hard and I've done the best I could with what I've had.
If mandated health care passes and you hate that, you can:
A) chose to not pay your taxes
B) chose to move out of the country
C) go be Amish or join a similar group where they go back to 1700’s style living and pay no taxes, legally, I might add
D) make your own, new Amish-style compound and live any which way you want to. In fact, go buy a private island and move there with like-minded individuals.
E) Go run for congress, win and begin to make the changes you say should be enacted.
However, if I chose to not pay my tithing I will not be in good standing with the church, in the same way neither will you be in good standing with your country if you do not pay your taxes. But there are several other, viable options here. You still don't technically HAVE to pay. No one is forcing you. Many of you have rebutted the choices I list here, saying "well, what kind of choices are those?!" Nevertheless, they are YOUR choices to make. We lazy people on welfare are not enslaving you. You pay for us out of your own free will. Thanks!
"Charity is only charity if it is given freely". Correct. And you give it freely. You have plenty of choices and if you don't want to pay for government welfare programs, then you are free to make another choice.
YOU ALL THINK I’M GOING AROUND IN CIRCLES HERE AND SOME OF YOU HAVE DISMISSED ME AS A LIBERAL NUT CASE BUT I HAVE A VALID, LOGICAL, CORRECT POINT HERE. You ARE NOT being forced to do anything by your government. You may not like the other choices, but they are still your choices to make. Before you bash health care, our government and those on welfare as being so firmly, absolutely WRONG, remember you DO have choices. You chose not to make them.
Case closed. I am done with these topics. Back to fun, light heartedness. I apologize for the seriousness lately. I have felt a drive to urge others to really think about these things and how narrow minded and judgemental it can be to speak of how righteous you are and then so quickly say you are so enslaved and use all the fearmonger words which cause unnecessary panic in a world already hyper-stressed out. What's the point of scaring all your fellow men into thinking their government is after them and then not stand up as righteously to MAKE THOSE FREE CHOICES WHICH WOULD MAKE THE POINTS YOU BASH? Don't pay taxes, then. Don't support those programs, literally, stop paying for them. You get that choice.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to continue homeschooling my children since I do work hard to do the things I *CAN* do on my own. Even if I can't afford health care or food at times, I've always tried to work hard and I've done the best I could with what I've had.
Reader Comments (12)
I found your site on Google and read a few of your other entires. Nice Stuff. I'm looking forward to reading more from you.
Never had my free agency taken, huh? Ok I'm going to take your word for it, assume that I don't have to pay all those taxes and refuse to do so when they come to arrest me and then try to keep my agency when they try to take it from me. I'll let you know how that goes, or you could just watch the news for the crazy guy who gets demonized for protecting his property.
Here's a great guote from Brigham Young on the subject of public schools that I think applies rather well to any form of forcibly funded government "charity":
"in aiding and blessing the poor I do not believe in allowing my charities to go through the hands of a set of robbers who pocket nine-tenths themselves, and give one-tenth to the poor. Therein is the difference between us; I am for the real act of doing and not saying. Would I encourage free schools by taxation? No! That is not in keeping with the nature of our work"
April 1877
48th Annual General Conference
Friday Morning Session
.-= Spencer W. Morgan´s last blog ..http://utahconstitutionalist.blogspot.com/2008/10/inflation-fractional-reserve-banking.html" rel="nofollow">Inflation, Fractional Reserve Banking and the Competing Solutions =-.
By the way, there have been many who have attempted to legally stop paying income taxes and are imprisoned for it. The Amish are not free because they are within the IRS' conception of the law, but because the enforcement has not been taken.
You're right though that the Amish are within the law to not pay, but so would I be and yet doing so would jeopardize my agency and my life itself I chose to defend that position.
.-= Spencer W. Morgan´s last blog ..http://utahconstitutionalist.blogspot.com/2008/10/inflation-fractional-reserve-banking.html" rel="nofollow">Inflation, Fractional Reserve Banking and the Competing Solutions =-.
You are incorrect. The government compels citizens to pay taxes. If one does not, the government will take that person's property to settle the debt and may throw that person in jail (taking that person's liberty). I've known private citizens imprisoned for not paying taxes. I've seen property seized and auctioned for nonpayment of taxes. I've heard testimony from the former chair of the Utah State Tax Commission that taxes are not voluntary and that the state of Utah will compel payment of taxes owed. I've discussed with county commissioners and county assessors the process of property seizure resulting from delinquent and unpaid taxes.
George Washington wisely stated: "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
By your "logic" then someone putting a gun to my head and saying "Your money or your life" is not forcing me, because hey, I still have a choice, right? Technically, this may be true, I can choose to die rather than hand over my money, but in your worldview, in seems that the word "force" has absolutely ZERO meaning, and certainly no resemblance to the meaning most people ascribe to the word. Lest I be accused of not being specific, I would venture to say that most people would define being pressured to do something against your will by another person under threat of violence is FORCE. If you have another definition (other than the ZERO definition mentioned above) I'd be fascinated to hear it.
Spencer, I'm not sure how much you read here, but over the last 3 weeks particularly (and 6 years, in reality) I've experimented and find that time and time again I am told I am wrong and bad and going to hell for thinking that people on welfare are not necessarily bad and that welfare programs are not all bad. How soon those people judge me as a heathen. There are two sides to each story is what I meant through all my posts. We need to stop judging others so harshly. My points are not necessarily to YOU - I can't judge you. I don't know you. Of course, I don't expect you to have to sell all your property to leave the country - JUST as I don't expect me or my loved ones to DIE because there IS health care available but they cannot afford it. And what of people who have to work and cannot homeschool their children? It's not all black and white - you cannot judge those who might NEED to send their children to "public" school - a single mother of three who MUST work. And what if she's on welfare? Is that for you to judge? They are certainly not damned to hell for using public schools or being on welfare. Now, when you make your world, after you get to the Celestial kingdom - you can ban all public schools and welfare programs if you like. But in the meantime we have REALITY which is that not all people are LDS or even Christian and our government was made to protect their rights, as well as yours. However, those who judge them and are prideful in their own righteousness in pointing out that they are lesser people may be worse off in the end for their pride & judging hearts. No offense. It's a fair scenario.
It was a larger, higher point I was trying to make. I see you are passionate about it and was not trying to anger you, per se, just make a point that the judgement between the parties can and should stop. It does nothing for the work of the Church.
I don't remember saying anything about you being evil or predicting the outcome of your judgment upon you. I was simply making an assertion about what I believe scriptures and inspired statements indicate correct principles to be. I believe you should be free to disregard them and act on different principles to any extent that does not involve using force against another, and that the judgment for doing so will be the Lord's alone and I would never be so presumptuous as to predict.
I believe you should be fully free to create and participate voluntarily in whatever schemes of collective relief and support you would like, here or anywhere else. Why isn't reasonable for me, on the other hand, to expect to be able to chose NOT to fund these ill-conceived, unlawful schemes of forced charity while remaining in a nation that still has as its Supreme Law a document that prohibits them?
.-= Spencer W. Morgan´s last blog ..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsiHfU5uLv8&feature=youtube_gdata" rel="nofollow">The Illuminati - Weishaupt's Secret Order - From Griffin's "The Capitalist Conspiracy" =-.
Gabrielle, I wouldn't expect you or your loved ones to die for lack of health care, in fact I would freely help you with any means at my disposal. Just please ask instead of using your government to force me, ok?
.-= Spencer W. Morgan´s last blog ..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsiHfU5uLv8&feature=youtube_gdata" rel="nofollow">The Illuminati - Weishaupt's Secret Order - From Griffin's "The Capitalist Conspiracy" =-.
all i will say on this is that i've always felt the welfare system, while a good thing to have, is severely flawed and should be revamped to be more like the LDS Church's welfare system in that if you don't make an effort to help yourself you get cut off...granted there are always exceptions to the rule, those that can't work legitimately for one reason or another, BUT those individuals usually spend time volunteering where they can as much as they can to "pay it back" in a way...while living in florida i saw GREAT abuses of the system...my family has been in a place where we needed that help and i am ever so greatful it was there when we did, but we did all we could got then get to a place where we would no longer need that help...for me, on social programs, i see they have value and merit, but they're set up exceptionally flawed, especially in the fact that the law of consecration only works when it is administrated and observed in righteousness and i don't think anyone is willing to say that those that are the powers that be right now are righteous...i say what i say not to get anybodies' panties in a wad, but as a simple truth...i have no malice for those that are for these programs, i'm just saddened by most situations because of the corruption etc
yeah...love those typos..."but we did all we could got then get to a place" should say "but we did all we could DO then get to a place"
There is some truth to what you say in that we never lose our ability to respond in some way to whatever circumstances we encounter, even if our choices are all undesirable. However, you're mistaken about the welfare state not being forced charity and coercion. Coercion is still Satan's approach, not Gods.
One of the choices you point out is that people can leave the region where socialist programs exist. As the region gets larger, this is harder to do, so I suggest that the principle of federalism as established by the Constitution helps maximize individual freedom. The Constitution limits the federal government to act in only a few areas, leaving all other powers to the states or to the people as per the 10th Amendment. This maximizes individual freedom because it's easier to relocate to a different state than to a different country.
If a community decides to help the poor at taxpayer expense, it's easier for people to choose a different community. They may not even be required to leave their employment to do so. It's still coercive, but less so than if it's done at the federal or even state level.
Recently I came across an excellent talk by Marion G. Romney on the differences between socialism and the United Order. I believe it may help you understand how socialist programs are coercive and have nothing to do with God.
http://runwin.tripod.com/socialism.html
LDS theology is full of references to the evils of coercion. Please reconsider your position.
Corey, I think you're right that the government welfare schemes could be improved quite a bit by copying the Church system, however there is one element of the Church system that is the most important of all that they can not copy because of the inherent nature of what a government program is.
Government schemes are funded by an act of force upon an unwilling 3rd party (the net taxpayer) and the Church system relies only upon voluntary contribution.